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+--- Thread: Update hopper rules (/showthread.php?tid=6014)
Update hopper rules - thatcactusgirl - 03-21-2022
So I've been doing a lot of research on how to decrease the server load for redstone builds, and I found out that our hopper rules (https://hometownmc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=5224) are actually out of date, similar to how we used to recommend furnaces on top of hoppers and now recommend droppers.
Since 1.14, composters are actually the best block to place on top of hoppers to reduce lag, as they perform the same function as droppers/furnaces but don't require the extensive inventory checks of droppers, and additionally aren't block entities themselves, further reducing the amount of lag they cause.
Here's a video explaining and testing various blocks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LC3ZOOI1Rf0 (no new blocks have added hopper functionality since 1.14 so this video is still up-to-date)
TL;DR: Composters on hoppers provide 30% less lag than droppers on hoppers, so they should be the new default block on top of hoppers for HomeTown.
RE: Update hopper rules - thatcactusgirl - 03-24-2022
I've done some talking with the people over at the Minecraft Storage Tech discord (https://discord.gg/JufJ6uf), and they suggested that we could have a separate limit for open hoppers, active but covered hoppers, and locked hoppers, since they each require different amounts of computing power.
Right now we have 3 concrete rules surrounding hoppers:
- No more than 400 hoppers in a loaded area (11x11 chunks)
- No more than 16 hoppers for an item catching hopper sheet
- No more than 4 hopper minecarts per loaded area (11x11 chunks size)
Open hoppers are the laggiest hopper block, which is why we currently have a 16 limit on hopper catch sheets. I think the 16 per sheet limit is fair since we can use water, but we don't actually have a limit on the amount of them in total. Since this includes hoppers in water streams, hoppers with rails or slabs over them, and any other hopper without an inventory on top, I think our limit should still include a good amount of these.
Active (non-locked) hoppers that have an inventory above them (like a dropper, chest, another hopper, composter, etc) are much less laggy than completely open hoppers, and the exact impact they make on server load depends on the block above it. This is what the video linked in the original post tests, in order to find the amounts of computing load that each block takes.
Locked hoppers (i.e. hoppers that are powered by a redstone source and don't push or pull items) take up the least amount of processing power, and are actually computationally equivalent to any other simple ticking block entity. Basically, they take the same computing power as a furnace.
Here's where my personal opinions come in LMAO
I think these might be reasonable new hopper limits:
- No more than 1000 total open or active hoppers in a loaded area (that's only around 8 per chunk)
- No more than 200 open hoppers or active hoppers with a double chest above it (double chests above hoppers are the laggiest configuration and are about the same computationally as an open hopper)
- No limit on the amount of locked hoppers, since there's likewise no limit on the amount of furnaces and they take up the same computational power
I think the limit on 16 hoppers in a catching sheet is reasonable as they can be substituted for other things, and the hopper minecart rule is also pretty reasonable.
These rules would not only make people use hopper placements that are better for lag (by encouraging people to lock their hoppers when not in use and minimize the use of open hoppers), but it would also allow more complicated redstone builds that are surprisingly low on server usage.
One example of a low-server load machine is this monstrosity: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LV3F2-VsZFY Even though it technically uses 1580 hoppers, 90% of them are locked at all times, so it has the same server load as 158 hoppers (about the same as one and a half /warp smelt's) Not saying that everyone should go out and build something like this, but it would be fun for the redstoner players to have a big goal such as this.
RE: Update hopper rules - Cil - 03-24-2022
I agree with this logic you have my vote +1
RE: Update hopper rules - TheDutyPaid - 03-24-2022
If you just had 1000 hoppers, then there may not be that much of an issue.
When you start adding, furnaces, comparators, pistons, rails, carts, chests, item frames, droppers, dispensers and all the rest of it. Then you are not only pushing your own FPS but also the servers TPS
RE: Update hopper rules - melaniebeedot - 03-24-2022
The first glaring concern i have with this proposition is- the practicality of applying it for the staff.
The simplest way to count the number of hoppers in a player's area, we go into spectator mode and fly through the map and mark 2 opposing corners with our //wand and //count hopper to determine how many are within the space we've marked, rather than having to go through by hand and find them all to count them.
To enforce the new individual limits you're suggesting... would require us to know where all the hoppers are and determine which kind of hopper they are, open/active vs. locked, count them individually, and with a limit of up to 1000? That just sounds like- quite a large use of staff time that feels impractical to me.
I see your point with how each kind of hopper works and how lag can be limited, but, players should already be locking their hoppers when not in use and minimize the use of open hoppers per the rules we already have.
My counter proposal is this: for the few redstone players that are interested in building extra large redstone contraptions that aren't necessarily lag intensive either, they can submit their ideas with a tutorial video link included, to be approved by the admin team on a case by case basis and may acquire express permission if we agree to make an exception.
RE: Update hopper rules - thatcactusgirl - 03-25-2022
That's definitely fair! I wasn't sure how staff enforced the current hopper rules, and I assumed yall counted the 400 hoppers by hand LMAO, definitely makes much more sense to keep it at a flat number then.
I also love the idea of the staff-approved large redstone builds too! Would that be something like the noob hut removal request thread on here?
RE: Update hopper rules - melaniebeedot - 03-25-2022
Not sure we need to make a whole thread for it, as i imagine it probably won't come up very often.
I would say just mention it to an admin/any staff member you see and it'll get passed along for the admins to discuss and consider
