[TransientReverie]

(11-13-2018, 09:58 AM)Anonymouse Wrote: I think this will help derp, thank you.

Yeah, thanks derp!

[NoDefiance]

(11-13-2018, 09:25 AM)TransientReverie Wrote: Now i do agree with you in that Greenview could have taken more steps to avoid this problem, but what I think you dont understand is that they did. After they were told to stop "spamming" the world chat they created a discord server for themselves and their community to hold private/town related discussions. The problem with party chat is the fact that players could be in different parties and may not want to leave for whatever purpose. A town chat system or a public chat system would definitely help here so on that part I agree with, but when this was brought up the lower-tier staff instantly shot it down stating that this problem was only related to one town and therefore not a problem. The staff didnt look for any other way to solve the problem besides their way. All propositions brought up by Greenview and their residents were discarded without a second thought. I think you misunderstand me I wasnt trying to turn this into an us vs. them arguement. I was trying to explain the situation and my point-of-view on it. Now of course i dont have the entire staffs side of the story because i didnt bother to ask them. That is my fault, and I should of looked into this more before responding hastily. BUT the staff is directly forcing and threatening Greenview members with mute's because of the fact they dont want to deal with the problem. The point of staff is to deal with problems like this in a civil manner, so for the staff to be ignoring the problem and threatening mutes will not solve the situation. It will only enact fury among lower class citizens or newer players who find this unfair. I understand your point-of-view and where you are coming from, but this is still direct staff abuse of powers. My proposition of a thorough rule change may help clear up these issues in the future. I hope you understand my point, I'm not trying to be hostile but threatening members of a server you want to make better or improve by being staff is completely unreasonable. Best wishes, respond if you want. 
~ND

---

(11-13-2018, 09:29 AM)derpedo Wrote: You are not telling the whole situation as it is. Earlier this week, Darillium and I were online when we witnessed olas101 and GreenPigeon holding a town meeting. It had completely taken over chat, making it hard to get any word out or have any other converstaion. Multiple players complained. To fix that, we simply asked you to take it to party chat, or, as a player suggested, take it to the server discord.

A few days later, with me, Darillium, Steasaur, and TrekkieEnderman online, they held another meeting despite the warnings. You, GreenPigeon, and olas101 had quite the words for us when we told you to take it to private. After continuous arguing despite warnings, you all carried on. Olas going so far as to say he would do it in public, but without announcing so we wouldn't know.

You already argued that Greenview takes up over half of the active population, which is incredibly untrue. It is true that it is growing fast and is quite large, but there is no need to blow it out of proportion. 

We are just doing our job as staff. You were told to drop the topic and you didn't, despite warnings. So, we told you that you would receive a mute if you didn't stop. That is not abuse of power. That is our standard protocol. The rulebook itself states that what qualifies as breaking the rules is up to each individual staff member. We do not pick our staff members all willy-nilly, we are very thorough and make sure they are very qualified so we don't get members who abuse their powers. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it's abuse of power.

I am working on trying to get a "Town" category set up in the HomeTown discord so you guys can hold your meetings while still being in the community, but that is the most I can do for you at the moment, as you are not all in the same party. 

End of the day, dude, it's a minecraft server. It's not that serious, the rules are not government law. They're just here to regulate.

You are not telling the whole situation either derp, the way I perceive it you are simply putting innocence on the staff and the blame on Greenview for not obeying properly. When you say multiple players complained the only players that did complain in public chat were a few independents and staff. That was it. If independents wish to communicate with other independents that is what PM is for. Public chat is for public discussion hence the name public. Greenview was holding a public meeting with 7+ members during their town meeting, and along with that, this meeting also contained irregulars/other towns. It was not just Greenview flooding the server. Greenview during this time was taking up most of the chat, but that is because Greenview was the only town relativity talking at the time. Forcing Greenview to stay silent under threat of mute, even though they are the most active town right now is unreasonable. Greenview is a fast growing city, and yes it does have the most active chat members. Most of the players everyday in chat that speak frequently are from Greenview. I just want to be clear, I am not saying that Greenview is the only town talking, just that we have more active chat members. Now i didnt pay attention to the whole chat, but from what I saw the only people who were talking were people in the Greenview meeting, staff, and a few other town people that were also in the Greenview meeting but were not technically participating in the voting. They were still speaking although. A few players that were in the direct Greenview room during the meeting did state, "Enough with all these politics its annoying". As I think I am correctly quoting from memory. Dont quote me on that though, I do not know the exact words or the exact player. Said it in a nonchalant way and was no way meant in a aggresive tone. It was more or less a joke by that player. The people that were saying it was annoying that were not staff or the few independents i mentioned were there to trade with one of the town members and were joking around. Staff took it upon themselves to "intervene" and command Greenview to be silent. The warnings were that they could not hold a meeting, which yes going against a staff warning was wrong. However Greenview did not see their first warning as a serious situation and took it as a one time thing. And after they realized that it was a serious warning they left the chat and went to discord. Some of the members, myself included, did state that it was unfair treatment to not hold a public political debate in the chatroom because you gave us no other option than your way. Some members did take it to far, im not mentioning names but we all know who, and did deserve a mute I wont deny that. But after this situation Staff instead of handling the problem appropriately decided to indirectly say that they would mute anyone who participated in the town meeting. The point of the server you have dedicated yourself to is to build towns your way. Not the staff's way. So commending our entire town to accommodate what makes the staff happy so they dont have to deal with the issues is purely childish and not what the server is for. Towny servers a created so players can establish settlements and wherever they go from there is THEIR CHOICE. Not the staffs. Greenviews town hall meetings were not harming anyone, they were not even stalling anyone from work on other towns. They did not inconvenience a single player on the server except the staff who were defied by a group of people who just wanted to create something on the server and thought they were being treated unfairly. The staff "exercised" their privilege and directly forced and threatened Greenview members with a mute because the staff did not like their reaction. If you think that the staff didnt in anyway threaten or force members of Greenview to be silent I would be happy to provide you with the definition of a threat or force. And not im not talking the physics term of force. Olas's point in saying that was to defy the staff, but more or less to prove something. This something being that if the staff didnt know they were directly being "defied" then they wouldnt have a problem with it. Especially if all their guidelines were obeyed properly. Would there be a problem if the chat was flooded with players talking about building? No. Would there be a problem if Greenview held their town meetings in chat, but spaced out their responses a bit more? No. Would there be a problem if a STAFF member flooded chat? No. Would there be a problem if the owner flooded chat? No. Would there be a problem if multiple towns across the server held a public meeting leading to a flooded chat? No. So why does Greenview get punished. Ill tell you because the staff go unchecked, once the staff made their decision there was no arguing, there was no way to appeal it, and compromises made by the players were not considered. This is because the staff hold an authoritarian propspective and if anyone disagrees with them then they get punished. Do you want to know why members on the server tell other players who even slightly disagree with the staff members to just drop it? Its because players who have had to deal with the staffs brute display of power know that no matter what you say the staff doesnt care. The only way the situation will change is if staff are monitored and are treated as regular players. Staff are there to help the server, not control it. What point is there in controlling an extremely influential town that brings members in, makes them feel welcome, and then those players decide to stay because they like how that town runs things? There is no point. Only the fact that the staff wishes to be right. The reasons I have stated directly show that the staff is abusing power, and I can damn near guarantee you that my reasons will be completely ignored and the staff will do nothing to review their rules because they want to be right. Greenview is an extremely chat-active and player active town thats how they are growing at an exponential rate. The reason Greenview didnt, and wont drop this topic is because of the fact that you are not listening to our opinions on the matter. As soon as something is said you ignore the problem, and then tell us to drop the topic or receive a mute. You dont listen to our voice, you dont listen to our opinion, you dont see things from our point of view, and you dont make compromises. YOUR JOB as staff is to help run the server and improve in areas that need fixing. Not toss them out the window. I propose a sitdown between the staff that disagree with Greenview and the Greenview government/players in a traditional and professional setting to deal with this issue because I think you can see as clearly as I can that this problem will not go away by simply muting us. Greenview does appreciate your work on trying to get a town category in the servers discord, but that is no longer needed because Greenview already has their own discord that wont be available to the public. The reason why this is being taken to a whole new level even though it isnt "serious" is because of the fact that the staff is making players on the server unhappy. That itself is a big issue. What do you think will happen when all the members of Greenview decide enough is enough and decide to quit because of unfair treatment. Ill tell you, chat will damn near be empty, amazing oppurtunites for the future will pass. You may lose perspective members because most other towns unlike Greenview are all the same. Greenview is trying to make something on the server so more people will want to join, but because of the simple fact they are not obeying how the staff wants them to the staff is silencing the community. Greenview wants to create something great on the server and be a welcoming community, but forcing them to be silent, disbanding public meetings, and not allowing the town to be a town is obviously going to cause anger and revolt against the staffs forceful rules set in place. I am not angry about this situation, I am simply dissapointed that the staff cannot think of any other way to handle this situation than their way, and they will not listen to the players that make up their server. Thanks for reading this, and best wishes. 

[AmbularD]

(11-14-2018, 04:41 AM)NoDefiance Wrote:

(11-13-2018, 09:25 AM)TransientReverie Wrote: Now i do agree with you in that Greenview could have taken more steps to avoid this problem, but what I think you dont understand is that they did. After they were told to stop "spamming" the world chat they created a discord server for themselves and their community to hold private/town related discussions. The problem with party chat is the fact that players could be in different parties and may not want to leave for whatever purpose. A town chat system or a public chat system would definitely help here so on that part I agree with, but when this was brought up the lower-tier staff instantly shot it down stating that this problem was only related to one town and therefore not a problem. The staff didnt look for any other way to solve the problem besides their way. All propositions brought up by Greenview and their residents were discarded without a second thought. I think you misunderstand me I wasnt trying to turn this into an us vs. them arguement. I was trying to explain the situation and my point-of-view on it. Now of course i dont have the entire staffs side of the story because i didnt bother to ask them. That is my fault, and I should of looked into this more before responding hastily. BUT the staff is directly forcing and threatening Greenview members with mute's because of the fact they dont want to deal with the problem. The point of staff is to deal with problems like this in a civil manner, so for the staff to be ignoring the problem and threatening mutes will not solve the situation. It will only enact fury among lower class citizens or newer players who find this unfair. I understand your point-of-view and where you are coming from, but this is still direct staff abuse of powers. My proposition of a thorough rule change may help clear up these issues in the future. I hope you understand my point, I'm not trying to be hostile but threatening members of a server you want to make better or improve by being staff is completely unreasonable. Best wishes, respond if you want. 
~ND

---

(11-13-2018, 09:29 AM)derpedo Wrote: You are not telling the whole situation as it is. Earlier this week, Darillium and I were online when we witnessed olas101 and GreenPigeon holding a town meeting. It had completely taken over chat, making it hard to get any word out or have any other converstaion. Multiple players complained. To fix that, we simply asked you to take it to party chat, or, as a player suggested, take it to the server discord.

A few days later, with me, Darillium, Steasaur, and TrekkieEnderman online, they held another meeting despite the warnings. You, GreenPigeon, and olas101 had quite the words for us when we told you to take it to private. After continuous arguing despite warnings, you all carried on. Olas going so far as to say he would do it in public, but without announcing so we wouldn't know.

You already argued that Greenview takes up over half of the active population, which is incredibly untrue. It is true that it is growing fast and is quite large, but there is no need to blow it out of proportion. 

We are just doing our job as staff. You were told to drop the topic and you didn't, despite warnings. So, we told you that you would receive a mute if you didn't stop. That is not abuse of power. That is our standard protocol. The rulebook itself states that what qualifies as breaking the rules is up to each individual staff member. We do not pick our staff members all willy-nilly, we are very thorough and make sure they are very qualified so we don't get members who abuse their powers. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it's abuse of power.

I am working on trying to get a "Town" category set up in the HomeTown discord so you guys can hold your meetings while still being in the community, but that is the most I can do for you at the moment, as you are not all in the same party. 

End of the day, dude, it's a minecraft server. It's not that serious, the rules are not government law. They're just here to regulate.

You are not telling the whole situation either derp, the way I perceive it you are simply putting innocence on the staff and the blame on Greenview for not obeying properly. When you say multiple players complained the only players that did complain in public chat were a few independents and staff. That was it. If independents wish to communicate with other independents that is what PM is for. Public chat is for public discussion hence the name public. Greenview was holding a public meeting with 7+ members during their town meeting, and along with that, this meeting also contained irregulars/other towns. It was not just Greenview flooding the server. Greenview during this time was taking up most of the chat, but that is because Greenview was the only town relativity talking at the time. Forcing Greenview to stay silent under threat of mute, even though they are the most active town right now is unreasonable. Greenview is a fast growing city, and yes it does have the most active chat members. Most of the players everyday in chat that speak frequently are from Greenview. I just want to be clear, I am not saying that Greenview is the only town talking, just that we have more active chat members. Now i didnt pay attention to the whole chat, but from what I saw the only people who were talking were people in the Greenview meeting, staff, and a few other town people that were also in the Greenview meeting but were not technically participating in the voting. They were still speaking although. A few players that were in the direct Greenview room during the meeting did state, "Enough with all these politics its annoying". As I think I am correctly quoting from memory. Dont quote me on that though, I do not know the exact words or the exact player. Said it in a nonchalant way and was no way meant in a aggresive tone. It was more or less a joke by that player. The people that were saying it was annoying that were not staff or the few independents i mentioned were there to trade with one of the town members and were joking around. Staff took it upon themselves to "intervene" and command Greenview to be silent. The warnings were that they could not hold a meeting, which yes going against a staff warning was wrong. However Greenview did not see their first warning as a serious situation and took it as a one time thing. And after they realized that it was a serious warning they left the chat and went to discord. Some of the members, myself included, did state that it was unfair treatment to not hold a public political debate in the chatroom because you gave us no other option than your way. Some members did take it to far, im not mentioning names but we all know who, and did deserve a mute I wont deny that. But after this situation Staff instead of handling the problem appropriately decided to indirectly say that they would mute anyone who participated in the town meeting. The point of the server you have dedicated yourself to is to build towns your way. Not the staff's way. So commending our entire town to accommodate what makes the staff happy so they dont have to deal with the issues is purely childish and not what the server is for. Towny servers a created so players can establish settlements and wherever they go from there is THEIR CHOICE. Not the staffs. Greenviews town hall meetings were not harming anyone, they were not even stalling anyone from work on other towns. They did not inconvenience a single player on the server except the staff who were defied by a group of people who just wanted to create something on the server and thought they were being treated unfairly. The staff "exercised" their privilege and directly forced and threatened Greenview members with a mute because the staff did not like their reaction. If you think that the staff didnt in anyway threaten or force members of Greenview to be silent I would be happy to provide you with the definition of a threat or force. And not im not talking the physics term of force. Olas's point in saying that was to defy the staff, but more or less to prove something. This something being that if the staff didnt know they were directly being "defied" then they wouldnt have a problem with it. Especially if all their guidelines were obeyed properly. Would there be a problem if the chat was flooded with players talking about building? No. Would there be a problem if Greenview held their town meetings in chat, but spaced out their responses a bit more? No. Would there be a problem if a STAFF member flooded chat? No. Would there be a problem if the owner flooded chat? No. Would there be a problem if multiple towns across the server held a public meeting leading to a flooded chat? No. So why does Greenview get punished. Ill tell you because the staff go unchecked, once the staff made their decision there was no arguing, there was no way to appeal it, and compromises made by the players were not considered. This is because the staff hold an authoritarian propspective and if anyone disagrees with them then they get punished. Do you want to know why members on the server tell other players who even slightly disagree with the staff members to just drop it? Its because players who have had to deal with the staffs brute display of power know that no matter what you say the staff doesnt care. The only way the situation will change is if staff are monitored and are treated as regular players. Staff are there to help the server, not control it. What point is there in controlling an extremely influential town that brings members in, makes them feel welcome, and then those players decide to stay because they like how that town runs things? There is no point. Only the fact that the staff wishes to be right. The reasons I have stated directly show that the staff is abusing power, and I can damn near guarantee you that my reasons will be completely ignored and the staff will do nothing to review their rules because they want to be right. Greenview is an extremely chat-active and player active town thats how they are growing at an exponential rate. The reason Greenview didnt, and wont drop this topic is because of the fact that you are not listening to our opinions on the matter. As soon as something is said you ignore the problem, and then tell us to drop the topic or receive a mute. You dont listen to our voice, you dont listen to our opinion, you dont see things from our point of view, and you dont make compromises. YOUR JOB as staff is to help run the server and improve in areas that need fixing. Not toss them out the window. I propose a sitdown between the staff that disagree with Greenview and the Greenview government/players in a traditional and professional setting to deal with this issue because I think you can see as clearly as I can that this problem will not go away by simply muting us. Greenview does appreciate your work on trying to get a town category in the servers discord, but that is no longer needed because Greenview already has their own discord that wont be available to the public. The reason why this is being taken to a whole new level even though it isnt "serious" is because of the fact that the staff is making players on the server unhappy. That itself is a big issue. What do you think will happen when all the members of Greenview decide enough is enough and decide to quit because of unfair treatment. Ill tell you, chat will damn near be empty, amazing oppurtunites for the future will pass. You may lose perspective members because most other towns unlike Greenview are all the same. Greenview is trying to make something on the server so more people will want to join, but because of the simple fact they are not obeying how the staff wants them to the staff is silencing the community. Greenview wants to create something great on the server and be a welcoming community, but forcing them to be silent, disbanding public meetings, and not allowing the town to be a town is obviously going to cause anger and revolt against the staffs forceful rules set in place. I am not angry about this situation, I am simply dissapointed that the staff cannot think of any other way to handle this situation than their way, and they will not listen to the players that make up their server. Thanks for reading this, and best wishes. 

All right, I've seen just about enough of this.

To be blunt, your town's operational issues AREN'T the staff's problem.  This is not a Towny server!  The server rules don't, in fact, even formally recognize 'towns,' as the majority of our players strike out on their own and never join one.  They're nothing more than personal builds which the owners have decided to share with other people, which is fine, as long as they're not creating issues for anyone else.  (Which, in my experience, they inevitably do, but that's a rant for another day.)

Derp went out of her way to set up a whole section in the Hometown Discord for you.  That is much more than she is obligated to do, and more than staff has ever done for any other group, so I'd suggest you count your blessings and take your chatspam and your attitude over there where they won't annoy the rest of the server.

And you can drop your vastly overinflated sense of your town's importance while you're at it.

[GreenPigeon]

(11-14-2018, 05:36 AM)AmbularD Wrote:

(11-14-2018, 04:41 AM)NoDefiance Wrote:

(11-13-2018, 09:25 AM)TransientReverie Wrote: Now i do agree with you in that Greenview could have taken more steps to avoid this problem, but what I think you dont understand is that they did. After they were told to stop "spamming" the world chat they created a discord server for themselves and their community to hold private/town related discussions. The problem with party chat is the fact that players could be in different parties and may not want to leave for whatever purpose. A town chat system or a public chat system would definitely help here so on that part I agree with, but when this was brought up the lower-tier staff instantly shot it down stating that this problem was only related to one town and therefore not a problem. The staff didnt look for any other way to solve the problem besides their way. All propositions brought up by Greenview and their residents were discarded without a second thought. I think you misunderstand me I wasnt trying to turn this into an us vs. them arguement. I was trying to explain the situation and my point-of-view on it. Now of course i dont have the entire staffs side of the story because i didnt bother to ask them. That is my fault, and I should of looked into this more before responding hastily. BUT the staff is directly forcing and threatening Greenview members with mute's because of the fact they dont want to deal with the problem. The point of staff is to deal with problems like this in a civil manner, so for the staff to be ignoring the problem and threatening mutes will not solve the situation. It will only enact fury among lower class citizens or newer players who find this unfair. I understand your point-of-view and where you are coming from, but this is still direct staff abuse of powers. My proposition of a thorough rule change may help clear up these issues in the future. I hope you understand my point, I'm not trying to be hostile but threatening members of a server you want to make better or improve by being staff is completely unreasonable. Best wishes, respond if you want. 
~ND

---

(11-13-2018, 09:29 AM)derpedo Wrote: You are not telling the whole situation as it is. Earlier this week, Darillium and I were online when we witnessed olas101 and GreenPigeon holding a town meeting. It had completely taken over chat, making it hard to get any word out or have any other converstaion. Multiple players complained. To fix that, we simply asked you to take it to party chat, or, as a player suggested, take it to the server discord.

A few days later, with me, Darillium, Steasaur, and TrekkieEnderman online, they held another meeting despite the warnings. You, GreenPigeon, and olas101 had quite the words for us when we told you to take it to private. After continuous arguing despite warnings, you all carried on. Olas going so far as to say he would do it in public, but without announcing so we wouldn't know.

You already argued that Greenview takes up over half of the active population, which is incredibly untrue. It is true that it is growing fast and is quite large, but there is no need to blow it out of proportion. 

We are just doing our job as staff. You were told to drop the topic and you didn't, despite warnings. So, we told you that you would receive a mute if you didn't stop. That is not abuse of power. That is our standard protocol. The rulebook itself states that what qualifies as breaking the rules is up to each individual staff member. We do not pick our staff members all willy-nilly, we are very thorough and make sure they are very qualified so we don't get members who abuse their powers. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it's abuse of power.

I am working on trying to get a "Town" category set up in the HomeTown discord so you guys can hold your meetings while still being in the community, but that is the most I can do for you at the moment, as you are not all in the same party. 

End of the day, dude, it's a minecraft server. It's not that serious, the rules are not government law. They're just here to regulate.

You are not telling the whole situation either derp, the way I perceive it you are simply putting innocence on the staff and the blame on Greenview for not obeying properly. When you say multiple players complained the only players that did complain in public chat were a few independents and staff. That was it. If independents wish to communicate with other independents that is what PM is for. Public chat is for public discussion hence the name public. Greenview was holding a public meeting with 7+ members during their town meeting, and along with that, this meeting also contained irregulars/other towns. It was not just Greenview flooding the server. Greenview during this time was taking up most of the chat, but that is because Greenview was the only town relativity talking at the time. Forcing Greenview to stay silent under threat of mute, even though they are the most active town right now is unreasonable. Greenview is a fast growing city, and yes it does have the most active chat members. Most of the players everyday in chat that speak frequently are from Greenview. I just want to be clear, I am not saying that Greenview is the only town talking, just that we have more active chat members. Now i didnt pay attention to the whole chat, but from what I saw the only people who were talking were people in the Greenview meeting, staff, and a few other town people that were also in the Greenview meeting but were not technically participating in the voting. They were still speaking although. A few players that were in the direct Greenview room during the meeting did state, "Enough with all these politics its annoying". As I think I am correctly quoting from memory. Dont quote me on that though, I do not know the exact words or the exact player. Said it in a nonchalant way and was no way meant in a aggresive tone. It was more or less a joke by that player. The people that were saying it was annoying that were not staff or the few independents i mentioned were there to trade with one of the town members and were joking around. Staff took it upon themselves to "intervene" and command Greenview to be silent. The warnings were that they could not hold a meeting, which yes going against a staff warning was wrong. However Greenview did not see their first warning as a serious situation and took it as a one time thing. And after they realized that it was a serious warning they left the chat and went to discord. Some of the members, myself included, did state that it was unfair treatment to not hold a public political debate in the chatroom because you gave us no other option than your way. Some members did take it to far, im not mentioning names but we all know who, and did deserve a mute I wont deny that. But after this situation Staff instead of handling the problem appropriately decided to indirectly say that they would mute anyone who participated in the town meeting. The point of the server you have dedicated yourself to is to build towns your way. Not the staff's way. So commending our entire town to accommodate what makes the staff happy so they dont have to deal with the issues is purely childish and not what the server is for. Towny servers a created so players can establish settlements and wherever they go from there is THEIR CHOICE. Not the staffs. Greenviews town hall meetings were not harming anyone, they were not even stalling anyone from work on other towns. They did not inconvenience a single player on the server except the staff who were defied by a group of people who just wanted to create something on the server and thought they were being treated unfairly. The staff "exercised" their privilege and directly forced and threatened Greenview members with a mute because the staff did not like their reaction. If you think that the staff didnt in anyway threaten or force members of Greenview to be silent I would be happy to provide you with the definition of a threat or force. And not im not talking the physics term of force. Olas's point in saying that was to defy the staff, but more or less to prove something. This something being that if the staff didnt know they were directly being "defied" then they wouldnt have a problem with it. Especially if all their guidelines were obeyed properly. Would there be a problem if the chat was flooded with players talking about building? No. Would there be a problem if Greenview held their town meetings in chat, but spaced out their responses a bit more? No. Would there be a problem if a STAFF member flooded chat? No. Would there be a problem if the owner flooded chat? No. Would there be a problem if multiple towns across the server held a public meeting leading to a flooded chat? No. So why does Greenview get punished. Ill tell you because the staff go unchecked, once the staff made their decision there was no arguing, there was no way to appeal it, and compromises made by the players were not considered. This is because the staff hold an authoritarian propspective and if anyone disagrees with them then they get punished. Do you want to know why members on the server tell other players who even slightly disagree with the staff members to just drop it? Its because players who have had to deal with the staffs brute display of power know that no matter what you say the staff doesnt care. The only way the situation will change is if staff are monitored and are treated as regular players. Staff are there to help the server, not control it. What point is there in controlling an extremely influential town that brings members in, makes them feel welcome, and then those players decide to stay because they like how that town runs things? There is no point. Only the fact that the staff wishes to be right. The reasons I have stated directly show that the staff is abusing power, and I can damn near guarantee you that my reasons will be completely ignored and the staff will do nothing to review their rules because they want to be right. Greenview is an extremely chat-active and player active town thats how they are growing at an exponential rate. The reason Greenview didnt, and wont drop this topic is because of the fact that you are not listening to our opinions on the matter. As soon as something is said you ignore the problem, and then tell us to drop the topic or receive a mute. You dont listen to our voice, you dont listen to our opinion, you dont see things from our point of view, and you dont make compromises. YOUR JOB as staff is to help run the server and improve in areas that need fixing. Not toss them out the window. I propose a sitdown between the staff that disagree with Greenview and the Greenview government/players in a traditional and professional setting to deal with this issue because I think you can see as clearly as I can that this problem will not go away by simply muting us. Greenview does appreciate your work on trying to get a town category in the servers discord, but that is no longer needed because Greenview already has their own discord that wont be available to the public. The reason why this is being taken to a whole new level even though it isnt "serious" is because of the fact that the staff is making players on the server unhappy. That itself is a big issue. What do you think will happen when all the members of Greenview decide enough is enough and decide to quit because of unfair treatment. Ill tell you, chat will damn near be empty, amazing oppurtunites for the future will pass. You may lose perspective members because most other towns unlike Greenview are all the same. Greenview is trying to make something on the server so more people will want to join, but because of the simple fact they are not obeying how the staff wants them to the staff is silencing the community. Greenview wants to create something great on the server and be a welcoming community, but forcing them to be silent, disbanding public meetings, and not allowing the town to be a town is obviously going to cause anger and revolt against the staffs forceful rules set in place. I am not angry about this situation, I am simply dissapointed that the staff cannot think of any other way to handle this situation than their way, and they will not listen to the players that make up their server. Thanks for reading this, and best wishes. 

All right, I've seen just about enough of this.

To be blunt, your town's operational issues AREN'T the staff's problem.  This is not a Towny server!  The server rules don't, in fact, even formally recognize 'towns,' as the majority of our players strike out on their own and never join one.  They're nothing more than personal builds which the owners have decided to share with other people, which is fine, as long as they're not creating issues for anyone else.  (Which, in my experience, they inevitably do, but that's a rant for another day.)

Derp went out of her way to set up a whole section in the Hometown Discord for you.  That is much more than she is obligated to do, and more than staff has ever done for any other group, so I'd suggest you count your blessings and take your chatspam and your attitude over there where they won't annoy the rest of the server.

And you can drop your vastly overinflated sense of your town's importance while you're at it.

Just like what was mentioned multiple times, you're waiving off the problem instead of solving it in any way. Greenview has 30+ members and is growing exponentially; considering a Local and Global chat system (Like HeroChat) is the best way to solve this problem.

Also, this new chat system wouldn't just benefit Greenview; it would benefit future towns and different players by keeping the server's Global chat clear of multiple conversations that have cluttered the chat before the existence of Greenview in the first place.

For a server that has over 60 players online everyday, there needs to be more plugins to keep up with its growing rate.

[NoDefiance]

(11-14-2018, 05:36 AM)AmbularD Wrote:

(11-14-2018, 04:41 AM)NoDefiance Wrote:

(11-13-2018, 09:25 AM)TransientReverie Wrote: Now i do agree with you in that Greenview could have taken more steps to avoid this problem, but what I think you dont understand is that they did. After they were told to stop "spamming" the world chat they created a discord server for themselves and their community to hold private/town related discussions. The problem with party chat is the fact that players could be in different parties and may not want to leave for whatever purpose. A town chat system or a public chat system would definitely help here so on that part I agree with, but when this was brought up the lower-tier staff instantly shot it down stating that this problem was only related to one town and therefore not a problem. The staff didnt look for any other way to solve the problem besides their way. All propositions brought up by Greenview and their residents were discarded without a second thought. I think you misunderstand me I wasnt trying to turn this into an us vs. them arguement. I was trying to explain the situation and my point-of-view on it. Now of course i dont have the entire staffs side of the story because i didnt bother to ask them. That is my fault, and I should of looked into this more before responding hastily. BUT the staff is directly forcing and threatening Greenview members with mute's because of the fact they dont want to deal with the problem. The point of staff is to deal with problems like this in a civil manner, so for the staff to be ignoring the problem and threatening mutes will not solve the situation. It will only enact fury among lower class citizens or newer players who find this unfair. I understand your point-of-view and where you are coming from, but this is still direct staff abuse of powers. My proposition of a thorough rule change may help clear up these issues in the future. I hope you understand my point, I'm not trying to be hostile but threatening members of a server you want to make better or improve by being staff is completely unreasonable. Best wishes, respond if you want. 
~ND

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(11-13-2018, 09:29 AM)derpedo Wrote: You are not telling the whole situation as it is. Earlier this week, Darillium and I were online when we witnessed olas101 and GreenPigeon holding a town meeting. It had completely taken over chat, making it hard to get any word out or have any other converstaion. Multiple players complained. To fix that, we simply asked you to take it to party chat, or, as a player suggested, take it to the server discord.

A few days later, with me, Darillium, Steasaur, and TrekkieEnderman online, they held another meeting despite the warnings. You, GreenPigeon, and olas101 had quite the words for us when we told you to take it to private. After continuous arguing despite warnings, you all carried on. Olas going so far as to say he would do it in public, but without announcing so we wouldn't know.

You already argued that Greenview takes up over half of the active population, which is incredibly untrue. It is true that it is growing fast and is quite large, but there is no need to blow it out of proportion. 

We are just doing our job as staff. You were told to drop the topic and you didn't, despite warnings. So, we told you that you would receive a mute if you didn't stop. That is not abuse of power. That is our standard protocol. The rulebook itself states that what qualifies as breaking the rules is up to each individual staff member. We do not pick our staff members all willy-nilly, we are very thorough and make sure they are very qualified so we don't get members who abuse their powers. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it's abuse of power.

I am working on trying to get a "Town" category set up in the HomeTown discord so you guys can hold your meetings while still being in the community, but that is the most I can do for you at the moment, as you are not all in the same party. 

End of the day, dude, it's a minecraft server. It's not that serious, the rules are not government law. They're just here to regulate.

You are not telling the whole situation either derp, the way I perceive it you are simply putting innocence on the staff and the blame on Greenview for not obeying properly. When you say multiple players complained the only players that did complain in public chat were a few independents and staff. That was it. If independents wish to communicate with other independents that is what PM is for. Public chat is for public discussion hence the name public. Greenview was holding a public meeting with 7+ members during their town meeting, and along with that, this meeting also contained irregulars/other towns. It was not just Greenview flooding the server. Greenview during this time was taking up most of the chat, but that is because Greenview was the only town relativity talking at the time. Forcing Greenview to stay silent under threat of mute, even though they are the most active town right now is unreasonable. Greenview is a fast growing city, and yes it does have the most active chat members. Most of the players everyday in chat that speak frequently are from Greenview. I just want to be clear, I am not saying that Greenview is the only town talking, just that we have more active chat members. Now i didnt pay attention to the whole chat, but from what I saw the only people who were talking were people in the Greenview meeting, staff, and a few other town people that were also in the Greenview meeting but were not technically participating in the voting. They were still speaking although. A few players that were in the direct Greenview room during the meeting did state, "Enough with all these politics its annoying". As I think I am correctly quoting from memory. Dont quote me on that though, I do not know the exact words or the exact player. Said it in a nonchalant way and was no way meant in a aggresive tone. It was more or less a joke by that player. The people that were saying it was annoying that were not staff or the few independents i mentioned were there to trade with one of the town members and were joking around. Staff took it upon themselves to "intervene" and command Greenview to be silent. The warnings were that they could not hold a meeting, which yes going against a staff warning was wrong. However Greenview did not see their first warning as a serious situation and took it as a one time thing. And after they realized that it was a serious warning they left the chat and went to discord. Some of the members, myself included, did state that it was unfair treatment to not hold a public political debate in the chatroom because you gave us no other option than your way. Some members did take it to far, im not mentioning names but we all know who, and did deserve a mute I wont deny that. But after this situation Staff instead of handling the problem appropriately decided to indirectly say that they would mute anyone who participated in the town meeting. The point of the server you have dedicated yourself to is to build towns your way. Not the staff's way. So commending our entire town to accommodate what makes the staff happy so they dont have to deal with the issues is purely childish and not what the server is for. Towny servers a created so players can establish settlements and wherever they go from there is THEIR CHOICE. Not the staffs. Greenviews town hall meetings were not harming anyone, they were not even stalling anyone from work on other towns. They did not inconvenience a single player on the server except the staff who were defied by a group of people who just wanted to create something on the server and thought they were being treated unfairly. The staff "exercised" their privilege and directly forced and threatened Greenview members with a mute because the staff did not like their reaction. If you think that the staff didnt in anyway threaten or force members of Greenview to be silent I would be happy to provide you with the definition of a threat or force. And not im not talking the physics term of force. Olas's point in saying that was to defy the staff, but more or less to prove something. This something being that if the staff didnt know they were directly being "defied" then they wouldnt have a problem with it. Especially if all their guidelines were obeyed properly. Would there be a problem if the chat was flooded with players talking about building? No. Would there be a problem if Greenview held their town meetings in chat, but spaced out their responses a bit more? No. Would there be a problem if a STAFF member flooded chat? No. Would there be a problem if the owner flooded chat? No. Would there be a problem if multiple towns across the server held a public meeting leading to a flooded chat? No. So why does Greenview get punished. Ill tell you because the staff go unchecked, once the staff made their decision there was no arguing, there was no way to appeal it, and compromises made by the players were not considered. This is because the staff hold an authoritarian propspective and if anyone disagrees with them then they get punished. Do you want to know why members on the server tell other players who even slightly disagree with the staff members to just drop it? Its because players who have had to deal with the staffs brute display of power know that no matter what you say the staff doesnt care. The only way the situation will change is if staff are monitored and are treated as regular players. Staff are there to help the server, not control it. What point is there in controlling an extremely influential town that brings members in, makes them feel welcome, and then those players decide to stay because they like how that town runs things? There is no point. Only the fact that the staff wishes to be right. The reasons I have stated directly show that the staff is abusing power, and I can damn near guarantee you that my reasons will be completely ignored and the staff will do nothing to review their rules because they want to be right. Greenview is an extremely chat-active and player active town thats how they are growing at an exponential rate. The reason Greenview didnt, and wont drop this topic is because of the fact that you are not listening to our opinions on the matter. As soon as something is said you ignore the problem, and then tell us to drop the topic or receive a mute. You dont listen to our voice, you dont listen to our opinion, you dont see things from our point of view, and you dont make compromises. YOUR JOB as staff is to help run the server and improve in areas that need fixing. Not toss them out the window. I propose a sitdown between the staff that disagree with Greenview and the Greenview government/players in a traditional and professional setting to deal with this issue because I think you can see as clearly as I can that this problem will not go away by simply muting us. Greenview does appreciate your work on trying to get a town category in the servers discord, but that is no longer needed because Greenview already has their own discord that wont be available to the public. The reason why this is being taken to a whole new level even though it isnt "serious" is because of the fact that the staff is making players on the server unhappy. That itself is a big issue. What do you think will happen when all the members of Greenview decide enough is enough and decide to quit because of unfair treatment. Ill tell you, chat will damn near be empty, amazing oppurtunites for the future will pass. You may lose perspective members because most other towns unlike Greenview are all the same. Greenview is trying to make something on the server so more people will want to join, but because of the simple fact they are not obeying how the staff wants them to the staff is silencing the community. Greenview wants to create something great on the server and be a welcoming community, but forcing them to be silent, disbanding public meetings, and not allowing the town to be a town is obviously going to cause anger and revolt against the staffs forceful rules set in place. I am not angry about this situation, I am simply dissapointed that the staff cannot think of any other way to handle this situation than their way, and they will not listen to the players that make up their server. Thanks for reading this, and best wishes. 

All right, I've seen just about enough of this.

To be blunt, your town's operational issues AREN'T the staff's problem.  This is not a Towny server!  The server rules don't, in fact, even formally recognize 'towns,' as the majority of our players strike out on their own and never join one.  They're nothing more than personal builds which the owners have decided to share with other people, which is fine, as long as they're not creating issues for anyone else.  (Which, in my experience, they inevitably do, but that's a rant for another day.)

Derp went out of her way to set up a whole section in the Hometown Discord for you.  That is much more than she is obligated to do, and more than staff has ever done for any other group, so I'd suggest you count your blessings and take your chatspam and your attitude over there where they won't annoy the rest of the server.

And you can drop your vastly overinflated sense of your town's importance while you're at it.

[quote pid='26650' dateline='1542148615']

Alright you know what, im done being nice, im done explaining, im done reasoning because I can clearly see your server that you work for is nothing but a cancerous slum where staff can do whatever they want, and they clearly dont give a flying fuck about their players. They only care about their pride, and once that is hurt they destroy anyone who opposes them, and dont you dare say thats not true because thats exactly what this server is, and that will never change. Greenview made simple requests, and all the staff did was shit on them. "Derp went out of her way to set up a whole section in the Hometown Discord". Please drop your vastly overinflated ego. Derp didnt do shit for Greenview, Greenview made their own discord and handled staff abuse on their own because of the fact that higher up staff members DIDNT GIVE A SINGLE SHIT about this problem. They didnt handle it maturely, and they clearly dont care. Your staff members are a complete dissapointment and you seriously need to reevaluate how you treat players otherwise your server will remain nothing more than a small player base server with a massive ego staff who think that players should blindly obey their dictatorship and oblige to their mistreatment. That is not how servers work, that is not how staff should act, and the immaturity I have experienced while playing on this server is overall absurd. Have a good day


[/quote]

[Ender_Muncher]

As was said before by myself and several other players and staff members, there is party chat that you and your members could use to hold your town meetings. When you refused to use party chat, derp *went out of her way* to make a special discord section for you and members of other towns to use, so that you could have meetings.

[Cil]

Or maybe you should stop before you get muted/banned as you are throwing insults AT the staff and people are being biased against your whole town? Escalating the situation will do you NOTHING. Take that from me.

[NoDefiance]

(11-15-2018, 06:31 AM)Ender_Muncher Wrote: As was said before by myself and several other players and staff members, there is party chat that you and your members could use to hold your town meetings. When you refused to use party chat, derp *went out of her way* to make a special discord section for you and members of other towns to use, so that you could have meetings.

Derp did that after we already made our own discord, party chat isnt a viable option because of the fact that people can be at other parties so announcing per party that Greenview is having a meeting is a bit of a problem.

---

(11-15-2018, 06:33 AM)Anonymouse Wrote: Or maybe you should stop before you get muted/banned as you are throwing insults AT the staff and people are being biased against your whole town? Escalating the situation will do you NOTHING. Take that from me.

Oh no I have already left the server, it is a complete disappointment and I will not be returning. The staffs treatment of its players is completely inappropriate for a server that is trying to build a good playerbase. The situation has already escalated this far because staffs handling of the situation was immature and the only way they handled it was with their own interests in mind. This server doesnt not care about its players, only what they want. Most Greenview players are planning on leaving/have already left because of mistreatment. I expect more players will follow suit in the future because it is clear from how this situation was handled that staff will not change their ways. Have a good day.

[Ender_Muncher]

(11-15-2018, 06:38 AM)NoDefiance Wrote:

(11-15-2018, 06:31 AM)Ender_Muncher Wrote: As was said before by myself and several other players and staff members, there is party chat that you and your members could use to hold your town meetings. When you refused to use party chat, derp *went out of her way* to make a special discord section for you and members of other towns to use, so that you could have meetings.

Derp did that after we already made our own discord, party chat isnt a viable option because of the fact that people can be at other parties so announcing per party that Greenview is having a meeting is a bit of a problem

Then you've solved the issue. Congrats

[NoDefiance]

(11-15-2018, 06:42 AM)Ender_Muncher Wrote:

(11-15-2018, 06:38 AM)NoDefiance Wrote:

(11-15-2018, 06:31 AM)Ender_Muncher Wrote: As was said before by myself and several other players and staff members, there is party chat that you and your members could use to hold your town meetings. When you refused to use party chat, derp *went out of her way* to make a special discord section for you and members of other towns to use, so that you could have meetings.

Derp did that after we already made our own discord, party chat isnt a viable option because of the fact that people can be at other parties so announcing per party that Greenview is having a meeting is a bit of a problem

Then you've solved the issue. Congrats

We did, but staff decided that any mention of Greenview politics (spammy or not) was to be silenced instantly. Derp even said that Greenview politics were to be kept out of chat. And Greenview themselves were to be kept out of chat. We solved the problem and took our own steps, but staff took it too far by enacting a practical mute on the whole town.