[_JELLy__]

He has the right AND the reasons to roast them. They did something wrong and they know it, but refuse to accept it. Everyone can see ban appeals anyways, Grimm was just stating the obvious. Also, an "appeal denied" wouldn't do much to highlight their mistakes and make them fix it.

If they act professionally and maturely and take responsibilities for their own actions immediately all these wouldn't have happened. If he's bad at English make an appeal anyways just insert a note saying "i'm bad at English". That shows Grimm immediately that he takes the responsibility and he is making an effort instead of making someone write the appeals for him or copying someone else's appeal. Make a proper appeal, make a proper apology, if they think Grimm is wrong then produce the proper evidence. Counter-grilling Grimm without reason is not a good way to go down. I mean, why go through all these crooked paths when there's a paved road in front of them?

[Infernoclaw6790]

I am not "grilling" Grimm, I am pointing out the flaws in her treatment of appealing players. I'm sorry this discussion has to be public but that's what Grimm made it. Also, if you're going to have a problem with Purple being disrespectful to Grimm than you should have a problem with Grimm being mean to Purple. Grimm is an admin, he should be able to keep himself from publicly shaming appealing players.

[TheOnlyKat]

(09-29-2017, 04:24 AM)Grimm_Wolfe Wrote:

(09-29-2017, 08:13 AM)Infernoclaw6790 Wrote: Apparently the subject of how an admin treats appealing players is something to make a joke out of.

His bio clearly states it. He has every right to share what you sent to him. An admins decision is an admins decision. If another staff disagrees then we would tell that person. No staff has had a problem with the decision of Purple, nor the decision of Grimm's thread. This isn't really a joke.

[Infernoclaw6790]

When I said joke I meant the responses of the first few people. I also still don't understand how what I said in my original messages was rude.

[Oshakai]

Purple deserved the treatment they got. I wanted to bang my head into my desk when I read that thwy were too lazy to write their own appeal. Appeals aint the fucking hard to write, it seems a bit disrespectful to be taking advantage of staff by not even writing your own appeal when staff is willing to unban them for their crimes on the server. As for viktor I think that of english is not his first language, then he should just write the appeal in his native tongue and google translate on the appeal. I know google translate isn't the best but it would prove his willingness to appeal. But either way what grimm did waa eh at best. I've seen people do waaaay worse with something like this. If grimm wanted to be cruel, he'd being bringing up shit in their actual lives or something of that degree(which would be too far, but I'm not saying grimm or any staff would do this). All grimm did was call out the bs that these two players were doing. If you take the time to get banned, you can take the time to write your own damn appeal.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Infernoclaw6790]

I still believe that no one deserves bad treatment. I also believe that as Admin Grimm has a responsibility to not "roast" people or publicly shame them in anyway.

[Grimm_Wolfe]

Well, here's the deal, and it goes along with what Osh said.

Within the overview of all evidence between Purple, Viktor, and Creeper; there's only the truth or falsehood.  That's a tautology in logical reasoning, which means it's always right.  All of this hinges on whether or not Creeper's told me the truth via PM.

If Creeper was telling the truth, then Viktor didn't put in any effort to being unbanned and Viktor had Ceeper lie on their behalf for the x-raying offense.  In the case of Purple, Creeper reused their ban appeal for Viktor on account of Purple's laziness to not even produce their own appeal.  In this case, neither party took responsibility for the creation of their appeals or actions.

If Creeper wasn't telling the truth, then Viktor and Purple made their own appeals.  In this case, Viktor straight up lied to me and Purple plagiarized Viktor out of laziness.

In either case, should I reward or tolerate their laziness or lies?  Would you reward or tolerate laziness or lies, Inferno?  Or how about anyone you know?  I would've been more than willing to help them be unbanned, as I've done with many others before them.  I'm quite amiable only if people put in the effort, which they did not.

---

(09-29-2017, 11:20 PM)Infernoclaw6790 Wrote: When I said joke I meant the responses of the first few people. I also still don't understand how what I said in my original messages was rude.

Seriously?  If I just came up out of nowhere and called you a score of negative adjectives, would you not consider that rude and uncalled for?

Secondly, the fact your second mail to me essentially said, "forget what I said earlier"-to me-sounds like you knew what you said was rude, regretted it, and then decided "screw it, gotta commit now" and re-sent a new version of the original comment.

[Infernoclaw6790]

Let's agree to disagree about your harshness.

[Grimm_Wolfe]

(09-29-2017, 11:51 PM)Grimm_Wolfe Wrote: Would you reward or tolerate laziness or lies, Inferno?  Or how about anyone you know?

(09-30-2017, 04:48 AM)Infernoclaw6790 Wrote: Let's agree to disagree about your harshness.

You never answered the question, Inferno.

That being said, please, remember what I told you via mail:



You're not the first person to go down this road and it will end poorly for you if you continue, and you do not want to be the next person with the proverbial inch-thick file on.  For your own sake-and I stress this highly-quit while that choice is still within your own volition.

[Geckorian]

As a minor staff member and a bystander in this conversation I think it necessary to point out a few key points:
1) the individuals who were banned were done so legitimately as evidence shows (even to most novices) that they were indeed x-raying.
2) The individuals who were banned appear to have not cared enough about their ban to warrant putting effort into the appeal process by plagiarizing either each other or third party (depending on whom you believe). The staff member who banned them noticed the plagiarizing and called them out on it, as well they should, requiring a new appeal.
3) Infernoclaw, who was not part of the ban and has little to no vested interest in said ban decided to send a private mail to Grimm (which was, in my opinion the proper way to handle this), voicing his opinion, possibly knowing full well that the results of such an action would be this very thread.

My thoughts on the matter:
Grimms actions concerning those who were banned were well within the rights and responsibilities of staff. The ban appeal process is there so that those players who get banned but are willing to show remorse and willing to change their actions and behavior can be let back into the server. I don't believe that staff, as a rule, wants to see players banned. We all want to give people the chance to come back. However, if the banned player is not going to make an honest effector in their ban appeal, it indicates to the staff that either a) they don't care enough to truly want to come back or b)despite knowing their actions were wrong they have no intention of altering them.

Infernoclaw, who had little to no vested interest in the ban as it was not they who was banned made a choice to voice to Grimm his displeasure in how it was handled. I wanna start by saying the way Infernoclaw choice to do this (private mail) was, in my opinion, the proper way. He did not call Grimm out in public (that I know of) and tried to keep it internal. However that fact that he chose to send the mail in the first place is an issue as he had no real business doing so. By choosing to "butt in" on someone else's ban appeal he has in fact violated rule 2: don't be annoying.

That is not to say that Grimm is without some blame. By posting those private mails here and allowing this thread to spin as it has one could argue that Grimm has violated rule 1: be respectful.

In closing, I personally think this thread should not continue and should be closed. To Infernoclaw I would say, stay out of things that don't involve you. To Grimm, private mail and msg should stay private. Yes Admins have social spy so anything said is seen by any Admin using it, however I don't feel you should have posted them here. And my final thought for all is that this should have never been a thread on the forums. It was a private dispute between Grimm and Ifernoclaw and should have been handled by the two of them in a DC channel privately.